2014 Mining Industry Outlook

 2014 mining industry outlook2014 Mining Industry Outlook: Prospects Look Bleak 

A review of last year’s operations and a peak into the future have some experts predicting a bleak 2014 for the Canadian mining industry. This news is especially hard when you consider that Canada’s mining operations are the bedrock of its natural resource based economy. The challenge that many companies are facing comes down to the matter of capital.

A report from Reuters, released last summer, indicated that 839 mining companies on Canada’s TSX Venture Exchange were coming up short on the potential to invest in new projects due to limited cash on hand. In fact, most of these operations were found to have less than $500,000 in liquidity. That is not going to help growth in the local economy.

Experts and analysts cite flat commodity prices as the main culprit for this bleak outlook. There is also a direct link to the strength of the U.S. dollar. Ironically, a strong U.S. dollar, when paired with weak growth rates in demand, can cause commodity prices to plummet.

Consider the plight of an ounce of gold. After reaching record highs, the precious metal has dipped down by around $450 per ounce since the beginning of last year. These kinds of commodity price swings are proving to be a challenge for mining operations to price out their M&A business.

Beyond the pricing issues, corporate financing has also taken a hit in these sluggish economic times. When investors are hesitant to get on board with a project, a ripple effect is triggered which sends “jitters” throughout the industry. There are some mining companies which could opt to use their own stock to purchase claims and expand. However, the result would be shareholders taking a direct hit when it is time to issue dividends. That is not an outcome that shareholders want to embrace.

Due to these factors, industry analysts predict that more companies will take the merger plunge as a way to stay afloat. This would be an option for companies who are on par with each other, yet would benefit from combining their finances. Across boardrooms, there are efforts to divest from a company’s asset portfolio in an attempt to reduce further financial risk. In other words, there will be a lot of “shedding of dead weight.”

Then there is the issue of acceptance that mining companies need to contend with. More and more municipalities are turning away from mining. As recent at last year, Cliffs Natural Resources pulled the plug on a major operation along Ontario’s Ring of Fire. This was after they had already sunk over $500 million in to the project. The reason cited was the lack of interest in developing the infrastructure needed to make this operation feasible. If governments aren’t going to support new mining operations, then they simply cannot exist.

On many levels, this could be a year of “survival of the fittest.” If mining operations can weather these financial upheavals, they stand a better chance to come out stronger when the economy begins moving in the right direction. All of this being said, the industry would like nothing more than to prove these analyses wrong.

2014 Canadian Budget: What it Means for Mining

2014 Canadian BudgetWhat the 2014 Canadian Budget Means for Mining

The annual release of Canada’s budget is met with equal parts praise, condemnation and apathy. This year’s effort is no exception. It was the Finance Minister’s goal to put Canada’s financial house in order. Translation: balance the books and curb spending. As for Canada’s mining industry, there haven’t been any major additions or reductions and that is actually good news.

There are a few key highlights that are of importance for the mining industry:

  • The 15% Mineral Exploration Tax Credit will be extended until March 2015;
  • Increase in investment for the Northern Economic Development Program;
  • Increase in the transportation infrastructure in the North;
  • Investment in Aboriginal communities to provide a source of skilled labor.

Among the highlights of the budget is an extension of the 15% Mineral Exploration Tax Credit (METC). This will now be in effect until March 2015 and that is very welcome news according to the Mining Association of Canada (MAC). This extremely helpful tax incentive benefits all Canadian miners, providing an incentive for continual exploration of minerals. Investors also benefit from the tax credit, creating a robust environment in managing risk. Naturally, every stakeholder in Canadian mining would like to see this tax credit become a permanent fixture.

The budget also includes $40 million to be spent over the next two years on the Strategic Investment in Northern Economic Development program (SINED). This will provide a much-needed boost for geological mapping which will have a positive trickledown effect for mining operations everywhere. It has been estimated that for every dollar spent by the government in this area, five dollars will be generated from the private sector.

Another concern to Canada mining is the investment in infrastructure. Without decent means of transportation across the country, the mining industry and the entire economy will suffer. This budget proposes $47 billion for a Build Canada Fund. It is meant to be spent on all kinds of road, bridge, rail and public transit projects over the next ten years. Some have noted that the funding earmarked for infrastructure from last year’s budget still hasn’t made its way to the First Nations communities it was meant for. Hopefully, that money and this new money will have a better flow rate. In other words, it needs to be spent.

Finally, the new budget contains provisions that are set up to help aboriginal youths gain a better foothold in education. A financial infusion of $1.9 billion will hopefully steer more First Nations youth towards better education and job training resources. This will provide them with greater opportunities to contribute to the Canadian workforce. That will certainly benefit Canadian mining as the need to find skilled workers grows. Already, Canada’s mining industry is the leading employer of aboriginals. There is no reason why that trend can’t continue.

 

The Benefits of Marine Spatial Planning

marine spatial planningThe Benefits of Marine Spatial Planning

A basic fact of port operation is that there will come a time when it needs dredging. As vessels grow bigger, the ports need deeper channels to handle the larger traffic. Unfortunately, the unintended consequences of dredging could prove harmful to fish-spawning beds. This happens as newly dredged sediment invades those fragile eco-systems. Not only is marine life impacted, but also the stakeholders in the port operation who are striving to maintain their own eco-friendly compass. One way to tackle this issue head on is through a comprehensive Marine Spatial Planning (MSP) program.

A proper MSP begins with open lines of communication between the port authorities, engineers, local government agencies, and environmental advocates. Of course, the stakeholders should also be involved in the process. They may even turn out to be valuable liaisons between the groups.

At a recent gathering sponsored by the World Ocean Council, the concept of Marine Spatial Planning took center stage. When done the right way, MSP becomes a program that incorporates the needs of the many, as opposed to a single group with an agenda. The goal is to develop a system that ensures responsible use of the ocean, without adding on the burden of additional regulations.

The Washington D.C. conference highlighted three potential conflict areas that a proper MSP program should address. These include:

  1. Use to Use: How resources inside the planning area, outside the planning area, and emerging/future resources will be utilized.
  2. Use to Resource: How a marine resource such as wind or solar can be developed to offset carbon emitting fuel sources.
  3. Use to Objectives: How the vision for the port comes together while considering all of these elements.

A perfect model for a successful Marine Spatial Planning program can be found in Norway. This process began several decades earlier and involved stakeholders from the initial planning phase. That is when a specific list of priorities for MSP were discussed and worked through. Only after everyone was in agreement regarding issues like the impact to the environment, employment opportunities, and general port operations did the actual work of dredge planning begin. It was a perfect “meeting of the minds” between the oil, gas, fishing, and tourism industries.

For any type of MSP to work, the parties involved need to streamline the conversations that involve local interest groups and the government. For instance, in the New England area, the fishing and tourism businesses feel that oil and gas development aren’t compatible. In the Gulf of Mexico region, they see their energy industry as the mainstay of any economic success. It’s clear that these divergent interests need to be brought together before any type of work alienates the local interests. The last thing anyone wants is a prolonged battle in the courts that ties up development at a port for years.

An organization like the World Ocean Council is poised to act as a facilitator between these various factions. A Marine Spatial Planning program is a great way for marine facilities to remain proactive with the kind of development and expansion that can be a huge benefit for all involved. 

The Cost Benefits of Peristaltic Mining Pumps

peristaltic mining pumpsThe Cost Benefits of Peristaltic Mining Pumps

A major component of any mining operation is a dependable and durable pumping system. Within the various options for mining pumps there is a standout. Peristaltic pumps have been found to reduce costs through better energy efficiency and also help to alleviate environmental concerns. The basic principle behind the design of the peristaltic pipes is their ability to compress then relax a stretch of tubing or hose, allowing for a more even flow of the contents. A roller makes its way through the length of the tubing to create the effect, while simultaneously setting up a solid seal between the suction action and eventual discharge. The result is no slippage of materials. There are many more reasons why peristaltic pumps are among the most effective systems that can be deployed in the mine. Consider these factors:

Less Water Required

For an operation that is attempting to process as much as 70 tonnes of product per hour, the average slurry pump can require huge amounts of water. When the slurry system is replaced by the peristaltic pump, a company can cut back their water consumption by as much as 1,000 million litres per year. That’s around one-third less water usage than that of a slurry pump.

Less Power Needed

Using those same average production numbers as a baseline, a slurry pump requires around 45 kW per hour in energy. Bring in the peristaltic pump and that figure drops to 20 kW. That could translate into cutting some energy costs in half. In addition to the savings, using these pumps will also help mines that need to ration power, without causing major production delays.

Less Pollution Created

Cyanide is a common component used in the leaching process in a wide range of mining operations, especially in the extraction of gold. There is no getting around the fact that if released into the surrounding environment, cyanide can pose a major health risk. In a typical dosing solution, the cavity pumps used in the process often require seal replacements. That can lead to leakage and seepage. Since the peristaltic pumps are designed to operate without seals, this helps to mitigate your chance for leakage. The direct impact of this feature is positive for the environment and can allay any concerns of environmental groups.

Less Expensive To Operate

Continual slurry pump use results in an acidic build up. As a result, the impellers used in those kinds of pumps will break down more often. That means increased maintenance checks. When that happens, production is slowed down or shut off all together. None of this happens with peristaltic pump usage. In fact, the hoses on a peristaltic pump can often be replaced with minimal interruption to the operation. Without those expensive metal impellers, the operating cost per pump unit goes down dramatically.

When you add it all up, it’s clear to see what kind of choices need to be made for mining pumps. If your operation isn’t working with peristaltic pumps you need to ask why. 

Quebec Reforms Mining Act

mining actQuebec Reforms Mining Act  

Mining companies are sorting through a piece of legislation that will have a direct impact on the way they do business in the province of Quebec. Before the end of last year, the Quebec Assembly adopted the Mining Act, Bill 70 or simply, Bill 70. This was actually the fourth attempt at overhauling the Mining Act, 1987. All of this builds upon the groundwork put forth by Bill 55 entitled “An Act To Amend The Mining Tax Act.” Even though this sounds a bit confusing, when you get into the details of Bill 70 you’ll soon realize what sweeping changes it may bring to the entire mining industry.

Among the highlights of Bill 70 are the following:

  • Allows municipalities to directly oversee mining activities in their districts;
  • Expands the obligations of certain mining rights holders in an attempt to keep them more accountable and transparent in their business practices;
  • Broadens the scope of environmental and economic concerns;
  • Requires increased consultation with Aboriginal groups;
  • Provides more oversight authority to the Minister.

With regard to the involvement of municipalities, Bill 70 allows districts to determine which plots of land should be classified as incompatible or compatible to mining operations. All of these newly granted oversight powers could be superseded by Quebec’s Minister of Natural Resources, if it determined that a municipality’s decisions goes against the provincial government policy.

With the new rules governing claim holders, they are now obligated to notify any municipality that they have taken over mining rights within 60 days of transfer. Before any work can be started on the claim, the holder must also notify the local governments within 30 days. This puts the burden on the claim holder to be more responsible with their business. In other words, you can’t just “stake a claim and start digging.”

The environmental impact of Bill 70 is an issue that was hotly debated. According to the principles of this legislation, mining companies will now have to put up a financial guarantee that will cover any costs for restoring a mine site. That restoration must also begin within three years of the operation shutting down. There will be no more abandoned mines in Quebec. Failure to comply with these new regulations can mean hefty fines in the neighborhood of $6,000,000.

Bill 70 has addressed a major concern of Aboriginal groups, the exploitation of land that is deemed burial grounds. After consulting with the Minister, those lands can be excluded from any mining operation. This doesn’t mean that all Aboriginal groups are happy with the passage of Bill 70. There was mounting frustration when debate on the bill was cut short by the majority party, Parti Québécois. While the Aboriginals applaud the efforts to get them more involved, there was hope that the bill would do more to curtain exploration on those sacred lands.

Finally, another key component of Bill 70 is granting the Minister the right to put mining claims up for auction. This replaces the previous “first-come-first-served” procedures used by mining companies.

Bill 70 now moves on to the Quebec National Assembly where it is sure to attract more debate. 

Canadian Mining Resources: New Resources for Companies

Canadian mining resourcesCanadian Mining Resources: New Resources for Companies

The melting Arctic ice is revealing a veritable treasure trove of Canadian mining resources to the determined miners willing to brave the frigid temperatures to retrieve the bounty. Call it the silver lining of global warming.

With the ice floes breaking up, ships are able to gain access to coastlines that were once off limits. However, this doesn’t mean that mining companies can merely swoop in and start shoveling up the rewards. The proper support system and retrieval infrastructure needs to be put in place before any company can get serious about mining in the Arctic.

Canada’s Arctic coastline stretches for 162,000 kilometres. The main hub for operations has been along the shores of Nunavut’s mainland. Currently, five mines are deemed fully operational. Within the next few years, at least three more mining operations could be set up in this resource rich zone.

What is being found under the Arctic ice? A better question might be, “What isn’t being found?”

Diamond Cache

It was only a few months ago when Peregrince Diamonds Limited reported finding one of the richest diamond deposits on the planet. Their CH-6 strike uncovered an impressive 2.7 carats per tonne. These are diamonds graded as “high-quality.”

The source of these diamonds can be found in Chidliak, which is situated about 120 kilometers north of Iqaluit. Diamond merchants are keeping a close eye on these operations. If the melting ice can open up pathways, then there may be a plethora on diamond deposits to be discovered.

Searching For Coal

Canada Coal Incorporated has been exploring Ellesmere Island for the last 30 years. Their findings reveal a potential coal deposit that could yield upwards of 20 billion tonnes. The key is securing cooperation from the island’s indigenous Inuit population, all 140 of them.

The Inuit are rightly concerned about the potential environmental impact of a mining operation on their land. Discussions are ongoing to find a way to make all sides happy and move forward with the excavation.

Shipping Base Metals

Located 350 kilometres inland, Australia’s MMG Limited has been extracting zinc-copper from the arctic for quite some time. To increase productivity, MMG is eyeing the new shipping lanes that are opening up from the melting ice. In fact, there are plans on the table to use Gray’s Bay for a deep-sea port that would be on the receiving end of an all-weather road, built across the Barrenlands. This is a huge project that could lead to the loading of up to 10 to 15 ships during the summer and fall seasons.

Finding Gold

The model for Arctic gold mining operations can be found at Nunuvut’s Meadowbank. This production is owned by Agnico Eagle Mines Limited, out of Toronto. Current tallies put the yield at around 360,000 ounces per year. Like the base metal mines, this operation is situated far inland and can only be supplied by ship. However, the company is looking at opening the Meliadine mine that is only 25 kilometres inland from the Rankin Inlet. This would only be possible thanks to the improved economics of bringing ships into these areas.

Iron Reign

The biggest operation in this area is the Mary River Project by the Baffinland Iron Mines Corporation. Miners are looking to sink $740 million in to an open-pit mining operation that could extract 3.5 million tonnes by the beginning of 2015. By 2020, the expanded rail and port operations could ramp that number up to 20 million tonnes.

While the debate about how to handle climate change continues, savvy companies are taking full advantage of the abundant Arctic mining resources. Will yours?

Marine Port Downtime: Ports Struggling with Unscheduled Downtime

marine port downtimeMarine Ports Struggling with Unscheduled Downtime

An idle port is a port that is not making any money. However, despite indications that overall shipping is on an uptick, average downtime rates have gone up in the past year. In a recent survey, 90% of the involved ports reported experiencing some level of downtime. This downtime, when terminals sat idle, resulted in loses that totaled over £100,000 per year, per port. That amount of lost revenue is hard to make up and it can have a huge impact on a port operation’s bottom line.

The cause of this marine port downtime might have less to do with any actual decrease in traffic and more to do with accommodations. Many ports simply cannot handle an increase in container traffic. When the basic infrastructure needs of shipping vessels are lacking, there can be congestion and delays. Those incidents have a ripple effect that can add to a port’s operating costs and may lead to that persistent downtime.

Many ports are taking a proactive stance by developing nearby hubs to handle the increased traffic flow. However, these infrastructure improvements aren’t happening across the board. Too many marine ports are happy to keep the status quo. Unfortunately, they aren’t looking towards the future, especially what an investment in expansion could mean for their business. Ironically, these are the same ports that are reporting downtime losses.

A positive example of how a port can avoid downtime issues can be found at the UK Port of Felixstowe. Recently, Felixstowe has shelled out around £300m to reconfigure their existing fender systems. That is just one of the measures that Felixstow has undertaken in order to remain competitive. They’ve made these infrastructure investments based on industry projections that suggest they could double their capacity within ten years. With optimistic projections like that, the port managers had incentive to spring into action. They’re not going to let any business float by.

The ports that are not taking a proactive approach towards minimizing downtime lose more than just revenue. There could be issues with lack of credit, requiring the need for financial restructuring. When these marine port operations continue to post losses, they are put in a vulnerable position for a take-over. Additionally, relationships between shipping companies and these ports can be forever harmed. Why would a shipping line return to a port that can’t handle their business?

The more struggles that a port has, the greater the risk that shipping companies will look for alternative solutions. Could this be one of the contributing factors as to why many American manufacturers are bringing their operations back to the US?

All of this follows the sage business saying that goes, “If you want to make money, you have to spend money.” That holds especially true for the marine port industry.

Key Issues of Canadian Logistics

Canadian logisticsKey Issues of Canadian Logistics

In order for the Canadian transportation system to meet the demands of a trade-reliant economy, adjustments will have to be made all across its logistical supply chain. This will mean a cohesive working arrangement between the Canadian government and the private sector. Yes, a working arrangement is in place today; however, it needs to be adjusted to align with the changing times. This will allow Canadian businesses to remain competitive in the global marketplace.

It is this issue of increased globalization that is forcing a top to bottom review of Canadian logistics. To meet the growing demand from emerging economies found in China, Brazil and India, the production and excavation of Canada’s natural resources is on the rise. Along with those increases in production comes a greater dependency on the transportation system.

Keep in mind that these upgrades don’t have to occur just within the Canadian borders. A perfect example can be found in the expansion project underway in the Panama Canal. By building out the current lock system, more shipping traffic can flow through the canal. That can have a huge impact on the Canadian economy as more goods can be exported in less time.

The issue of accommodating larger ships is also in play across ports, railways and trucking companies. Coordinating efforts to keep up with the demand is much needed. If there is a breakdown anywhere along the supply chain, then the entire system suffers. Since the United States is still the largest trading partner that Canada has, a focus on improved transborder shipments is essential. This is why an initiative by Beyond the Border is aimed at streamlining the transportation chain all across the US/Canada border.

It’s not just commodities that will require a functioning and expanded transportation system. As the foreign economies grow, Canada can expect to see a rise in tourism. According to some estimates, the total number of airline passengers booking flights through Canada could rise by 3%. To hold these passengers, the standard 74-seat airliner needs to grow to 95 seats. Those planes are already being built. This presents a unique opportunity for the Canadian airline carriers to get on board with an expansion program, or risk being left behind. This goes for both the low-cost airlines and the big players. Suppose new airliner designs require larger runways. Will Canadian airports be able to meet the challenge of welcoming those aircrafts?

On the roads, cross-border passenger traffic is also expected to increase between Canada and the US. Both governments are working on upgraded driver’s licenses that will ease the flow at border crossings. Furthermore, frequent travelers should be able to make use of pre-clearance systems at participating border crossings.

The bottom line is that there won’t be a segment of the transportation industry that will be left untouched by a projected increase in traffic. By getting out in front of these challenges, Canada can play a vital leadership role in modeling how supply chains can adapt. The prevailing wisdom is that we’re all in this together, so let’s make it work

Sustainability of the Canada Mining Standards

Canada Mining standardsCanada’s Sustainable Mining Standards

Since its inception, the Mining Association of Canada has been committed to fostering policies around responsible mining and Canada Mining Standards. To that end, they developed the Towards Sustainable Mining (TSM) program. This is a comprehensive guide to support Canadian mining operations by minimizing environmental risks and improving productivity.

TSM was started in 2004 using the core principles of accountability, transparency, and credibility. Its purpose is to guide its members towards a proactive role as a major source of energy and a willing partner in supporting the environment.

Accountability comes into play because every member of the Mining Association of Canada is obligated to participate in the Towards Sustainable Mining program. This means conducting ongoing assessments at all levels of a mining operation. These assessments are made available to the community at large, which speaks to the transparency issue.

In fact, there are 23 important indicators that are used to judge a mining operation’s sustainability. The results of these “report cards” are made available to the public. As for credibility, the participating TSM members are in active consultation with the Community of Interest Advisory Panel. This puts them in direct contact with civic leaders and concerned citizens. The goal is to keep the lines of communication open and to answer any and all concerns that the groups might have.

How does Towards Sustainable Mining work? First, the mining operation needs to commit to the program’s guiding principles. Those principles set the foundation for a company to act responsibly through all their practices. Among the principles are the following items:

  • Involving communities of interest in the design and implementation of the Towards Sustainable Mining initiative;
  • Proactively seeking, engaging and supporting dialogue regarding our operations;
  • Fostering leadership throughout our companies to achieve sustainable resource stewardship wherever we operate;
  • Seeking to minimize the impact of our operations on the environment and biodiversity through all stages of development, from exploration to closure;
  • Working with our communities of interest to address legacy issues, such as orphaned and abandoned mines;
  • Respect human rights and treat those with whom we deal fairly and with dignity;
  • Respect the cultures, customs and values of people with whom our operations interact;
  • Recognize and respect the unique role, contribution, and concerns of Aboriginal people (First Nations, Inuit, and Métis) and indigenous people worldwide.

Think of these principles as a kind of compass for a mining operation to follow. Those guiding principles are supported through the implementation of the 23 indicators, mentioned above. Each of these indicators is assigned a letter grade from C to AAA.

Additionally, members submit to an external verification process. This happens every three years when an objective third party steps in to review the operations. Those reviews are certified through a Letter of Assurance issued from the CEO’s office.

Due to the importance of this program, the Mining Association of Canada offers extensive training in TSM compliance. This means that every operation is provided with the exact same level of skill sets required to get this program up and running.

The goal of every member is to achieve a rating of Level A. At that level, the mining company has proven that it is keeping those practices that support the environment at the forefront of their operation.

 

Creating Marine Port Clusters in Canada

marine port clustersCreating Marine Port Clusters in Canada 

The potential for marine ports to expand is an issue that many major facilities around the globe are contending with. This is actually good news because the demand for expansion means that shipping numbers are up across the board.

 Q: How can a terminal that is “locked down” expand?

 A: By setting up marine port clusters in the area.

Port clusters are a group of complementary companies that set up business in a region to service common clientele. University research has shown that regional clusters of interlinked industries, organizations, and institutions act as a fertile ground for innovation, entrepreneurship, and the upgrade of competitive advantage among firms.

A perfect example of this type of development can be found at the Port of Savannah in Georgia. Because of the increasing demand, additional marine ports were built as a kind of satellite terminal. These operations are owned by CSX and Norfolk Southern. Combined, they were able to move 314,623 containers last year. That certainly takes some of the burden off of the Port of Savannah and keeps operations moving.

In addition to the marine ports, there have been several logistic zones set up around the main port. These include the Crossroads Business Park and the Savannah River International Trade Park. These facilities allow major players like Target and IKEA to set up distribution centers (DC) that can take advantage of the expanded Port Authority terminals.

Across the Atlantic, the Port of Rotterdam has set up its own cluster zones. It is through these ports that the goods of Europe flow. The vitality of the European Union depends on this commerce.

For its part, Rotterdam set up a specific organization, Deltalinqs, charged with coordinating all the work of the cluster operations. Deltalinqs represents over 600 companies in the surrounding area. That is just a fraction of the 3,550 companies that use the Port of Rotterdam for some type of cargo handling.

Thanks to the development of these marine port clusters, the Port of Rotterdam is also able to accommodate other types of businesses beyond the shipping industry. The result has been that energy and chemical companies now make up 50% of the total revenue generated at the port.

Marine Port Congestion

Even with the clusters in place, congestion is still a major issue for any company doing business through Rotterdam. This has driven the logistics company, Waalhaven Group, to move its operations 200 km beyond Rotterdam. The affordable land prices and access to infrastructure is drawing other customers to Waalhaven.

Next to Rotterdam, Antwerp is the largest marine port in Europe. Here too, the available land can’t meet the demand for expansion. To accommodate the expansion, Alfaport Antwerp is partnering up with Flemish officials to create an environment that will be friendly to incoming businesses as the plans for port clusters are being developed.

The coalition, put together by Alfaport, consists of 400 members from various industry groups. Among the associations involved in the development are the Antwerp Stevedores Association, the Antwerp Shipping Federation, the Royal Belgian Association of Shipowners, the Royal Association of Trafficflow Controllers and the Association for Forwarding, Logistics and Freight Interests in Antwerp.

Here in Canada, marine port operations can learn a lot from these port cluster expansions. As a port executive, it would make sense to initiate these conversations with the government and key partners as shipping traffic increases. By involving the government and shipping associations at the early stages, port officials can get everyone on the same page and keep them there.